Did Six Million Really Die?
Testimony of
Fred A. Leuchter, Jr.
Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. was the twenty-first witness in the great Zundel trial.Cross-Examination
Leuchter testified that he had graduated in 1964 with a Bachelor of Arts degree. (32 9196) Asked who had determined that he was an engineer, he stated that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts had done so when they issued him a medical research licence, the Department of Drug Enforcement when they issued him his medical licence, and the United States Navy in all of the work he had done with them on navigational instrumentation. (32-9198)
Leuchter had used his medical research licence when he designed and built a precise lethal injection system that took into consideration the poor vascular systems of the people on whom the instrument was to be used. (32-9199) The licence was required because the handling of anything that had to do with intravenous injection required a medical licence. (32-9200)
Leuchter testified that he had never conducted an execution, (32-9200) nor had he witnessed an execution using poison gas. (32-9202) He agreed that he was not a professional chemist, a professional toxicologist, or a professional architect. (32 9212)
Since 1979, Leuchter had been involved with execution hardware. He designed and built the gallows now in use in the state of Delaware. He had designed the gas chamber at the Missouri State Penitentiary. It had not yet been completed; the hardware was presently being shipped and fabricated. (32-9201) The Crown challenged Leuchter on this statement, suggesting that the truth was that Leuchter had only proposed modifications to the existing gas chamber. Leuchter disagreed, stating that he had "completely altered the design" and that a new system was being installed. The entire gas chamber, originally built in 1932, was being replaced with the exception of the steel. (32-9202)
Calculations to determine the amount of Zyklon B gas required to execute a human being were based upon the quantity required on a cubic foot basis which was about a half pound per thousand feet. The calculation was the cubic footage of the room multiplied by half a pound. Depending upon the density of the air at the given time, the concentration of hydrogen cyanide in the air would reach approximately 3,200 to 3,600 parts per million. (32-9203)
Leuchter agreed that hydrogen cyanide was lethal for humans at 300 parts per million over approximately ten or fifteen minutes and that his calculations were based on the amount that was used in the United States to execute a condemned prisoner. (32-9204) The concentration of 3,200 parts per million killed the prisoner in approximately four minutes. This was the concentration that had been used in the United States for the past fifty or sixty years. (32-9205)
The calculations were also based on the executed person occupying 9 square feet of space. Leuchter stated this was the space necessary for air circulation and was a figure normally used by all air moving engineers throughout the world. (32-9205)
In the old gas chamber in Missouri, the hydrogen cyanide had been generated by dropping sodium cyanide briquettes into sulfuric acid. Leuchter had changed this to a procedure by which hydrogen cyanide liquid was vapourized. (32-9206, 9207) The Crown suggested that this was the same as the vapourization of Zyklon B liquid described by Hilberg as the procedure of gassing used at Birkenau; Leuchter disagreed and pointed out there was no such thing as Zyklon B liquid. Zyklon B came in pellets. (32-9207)
Leuchter agreed that one of the goals of the state of Missouri in its execution procedures was to have an installation that was as safe as possible for all personnel other than the condemned person. He did not agree that another goal was to have an installation which killed the condemned person as quickly as possible and that this was the reason for the recommended 3,200 parts per million concentration of hydrogen cyanide. He agreed, however, that this concentration killed the prisoner quickly. (32-9207, 9208)
Leuchter was contacted by Robert Faurisson in February of 1988. Some of the Holocaust literature he had referred to in his testimony had been provided to him by Faurisson and by Zündel, and he read some of it in the three weeks before going to Poland. The museum literature, he had picked up himself while at the sites in Poland. He was also supplied with photocopies of Hilberg's publications. He had no need to read all three volumes of Hilberg's work. He believed he had read as much as he needed to in order to know what he was doing. Asked if he did research into the sources referred to by Hilberg, Leuchter replied that he did additional research but could not say where he had found the citations. (32-9207)
Leuchter did not tell the Majdanek camp officials in Poland why he was in the camp. He felt he had no need to. He was in a communist country and felt that it was better not to say anything. (32-9214) He agreed he did not inform camp officials that he was going to use the official museum publications as the basis for an opinion that he was going to give in a court of law. He agreed that he did not tell camp officials that he was taking the samples which he removed. (32-9216)
Leuchter agreed that he had designated one of the chambers at Majdanek a delousing facility. Asked why a delousing facility would require a peephole, he replied that it might be necessary to look into the chamber to see clothing being fumigated, but he could not know for what purpose the individual running the facility would be using the peephole. (32-9217) Leuchter pointed out that the standard procedure for delousing in most facilities was to place the Zyklon B material on the floor with whatever was in the room being deloused and then close and seal the door. The only provision for putting Zyklon B into this particular room was to place it on the floor by hand and close the door. He stated that it became very obvious that it could not have been an execution chamber because "no one is going to stand in a chamber while somebody with a gas mask puts poison gas pellets on the floor and then leaves." (32-9219)
Asked if he had conducted an extensive survey of Nazi fumigation techniques in Poland, Leuchter replied that he had read the instruction manual which had provided information on the handling of Zyklon B to the technicians doing the delousing. This document was published by the Allied powers, Office of the Chief Counsel for War Crimes, in Nuremberg as Document NI- 9912. Asked if it had been included in his report, Leuchter replied that it was included in the appendix. Asked if he couldn't conceive of somebody just opening the door of the gas chamber and throwing the pellets in, Leuchter replied that he could not. (32-9220, 9221)
Leuchter testified that, according to DEGESCH, Zyklon B was manufactured and used until about three years ago. One of its uses was to fumigate the holds of ships. Ship fumigation was normally done with liquid hydrogen cyanide. Zyklon B, on the other hand, was designed for use in a facility where heated air could be blown over it. (32-9221) The Crown showed Leuchter the DEGESCH manual which Leuchter had reproduced as an appendix to his report, and asked if a photograph did not show a person dropping solid items into the hold of a ship. Leuchter pointed out that the person was not dropping the Zyklon into the hold of a ship, but into a box on the ship's deck. (32-9222)
Leuchter stated that the alleged gas chamber at Krema I was converted into a bomb shelter in 1944, but did not agree that significant changes were made to the building. He pointed out the drains on the conversion plans and testified that the blueprint indicated that they had been pre-existing in the facility, and that nothing was being done to the floor during the conversion. The floor had not been dug up; there were no patches in it. In his opinion, the drains had been there for many years, including the time the room was allegedly used as a gas chamber. Asked if drains couldn't be plugged up, Leuchter replied that if the drains had been plugged, they would be plugged today, which they were not. To unplug the drain, the floor would have had to have been dug up and the pipe replaced. The floor had not been dug up. (32 9224 to 9226)
Leuchter agreed he had never worked for a client who considered the personnel who emptied the gas chamber to be expendable, and who was willing to wait up to half an hour for the condemned person to die. (32-9227, 9228)
Leuchter agreed that something had happened to the facilities, that they were no longer in the condition they had been in 1944, but did not know who had done it or when. (32-9229, 9230)
Krema II and Krema III were both subterranean. The roof of Krema II was fractured in several places but was essentially whole. It was partially collapsed. (32-9232) The roof of Krema III had crumbled and was lying in bits and pieces in the basement area of what would have been the alleged gas chamber. (32-9232, 9233)
Kremas IV and V were totally demolished with the exception of the foundations. (32- 9233)
He agreed with the Crown that an underground facility would have the benefit of good insulation. (32-9236)
Leuchter had not calculated the heat which would be generated by squeezing up to 2,000 people into a room of 2,500 square feet, but did not agree that it would be enough to vapourize the Zyklon B. He testified that a temperature rise of perhaps ten to fifteen degrees would result, and that a temperature of 78.3 was required to vaporize Zyklon B. (32-9235, 9236)
He had not calculated the heat released by fifteen crematory furnaces working around the clock, and did not consider it necessary. (32-9235) The furnaces were in another wing of the facility, which had three wings. One was the crematory, one was the alleged gas chamber and one was the alleged undressing room. The furnaces were above and, on a diagonal, maybe 50 or 60 feet away from the alleged gas chamber. Leuchter asked what heat generated from these furnaces would have to do with a facility that was underground and well-insulated. (32-9237)
The Crown suggested that a red-hot brick had been thrown into the chamber to increase the temperature around the Zyklon B. Leuchter replied that bricks did not get red-hot, only metal did. A brick might be too hot for a person to handle, but would still not be of sufficient temperature to cause an explosion with the gas, although it would probably raise the temperature. (32-9238)
The sole purpose of Leuchter's research was to give him enough information on the operational procedures at the facilities, so that he could go to Poland and investigate what was there. He was not trying to apprise himself of all "Holocaust" literature. Raul Hilberg may have stated in his book that a ventilation system was delivered, but Leuchter could say that there was not one there and there was not one installed. He questioned whether Hilberg knew enough about the mechanics of ventilation systems, electric motors and fans to be involved in the question. He agreed he had not spoken to Hilberg to find the basis of the latter's conclusions. (32- 9239, 9240)
Crown counsel quoted from page 885 of Hilberg's book concerning a letter from SS Construction Management Auschwitz to Kammler, WVHA, January 29, 1943, reporting completion of Krema II. Based on this document, Hilberg had written:
In the meantime (January 29, 1943), the Zentralbauleitung reported to Kammler that after the commitment of all available manpower and in spite of tremendous difficulties (unsagbarer Schwierigkeiten), including freezing weather, one of the crematoria was now in place, except for minor construction details (bauliche Kleinigkeiten) and the pending delivery by Topf of the ventilation system for the Leichenkeller. The furnace, however, had been tried out in the presence of Engineer Prüfer and functioned perfectly...
Leuchter testified that he had not seen this document, but stated that Topf manufactured crematory equipment, and that the ventilation system being referred to was, in fact, the blower for the furnace and had nothing to do with ventilating the alleged gas chamber. (32-9241, 9242) On re-examination, Leuchter testified that he knew from the inspection of the facility that there was no ventilation system at Krema II of any type and no provision in the construction of the building for any. (32-9273)
The Crown produced the Nuremberg translation [NO-4473, NMT vol. 5, p. 619] of the Kammler letter relied upon by Hilberg:
[Handwritten] SS Ustuf. (F) Kirschneck
COPY 29 January, 1943 Bftgb. [Journal] No. 22250/43/Bi/L. To the Chief of Amtsgruppe C, SS Brigadefuehrer and Brigadier General of the Waffen SS, Dr. Ing. Kammler, Berlin-Lichterfelde-West Unter den Eichen 126-135 Subject: Crematorium II, condition of the building. Reference: Teletype letter of SS Economic and Administrative Main Office No. 2648 of 28 January 1943. Enclosure: Report on check up.
The crematorium II has been completed - save for some minor constructional work - by the use of all the forces available, in spite of unspeakable difficulties, the severe cold, and in 24-hour shifts. The fires were started in the ovens in the presence of Oberingenieur Pruefer, representative of the contractors of the firm of Topf and Soehne, Erfurt, and they are working most satisfactorily. The planks from the concrete ceiling of the cellar used as a mortuary [Leichenkeller] could not yet be removed on account of the frost. This is, however, not very important, as the gas chamber can be used for that purpose.
The firm of Topf and Soehne was not able to start deliveries of the installation in time for aeration and ventilation as had been requested by the Central Building Management because of restrictions in the use of railroad cars. As soon as the installation for aeration and ventilation arrive, the installing will start so that the complete installation may be expected to be ready for use 20 February 1943.
We enclose a report [not attached to document] of the testing engineer of the firm of Topf and Soehne, Erfurt.
The Chief of the Central Construction Management, Waffen SS and Police Auschwitz SS Hauptsturmfuehrer
Distribution: 1-SS Ustuf. Janisch u. Kirschneck. 1-Filing office (file crematorium). Certified true copy: [Signature illegible] SS Ustuf. (F)
Leuchter did not agree with the interpretation placed upon the letter by Hilberg. He pointed out that the letter said nothing about the ventilation system being installed in the Leichenkeller, and that the reference to the ventilation system was not even in the same paragraph. (32-9245; Letter entered as Exhibit 153)
Leuchter did not agree that it took a much higher concentration of hydrogen cyanide to exterminate insects than it did to kill human beings. (32-9245, 9246) He stated that he had never made computations for killing beetles. (32-9248)
The Crown quoted from the DEGESCH "Zyklon" manual at page 5 that:
Liquid HCN burns like alcohol. Gaseous HCN forms an explosive mixture with air under certain conditions. The lower explosion limit, however, lies far above the concentration used in practical fumigation work.
The Crown questioned Leuchter's opinion concerning the possibility of an explosion when the crematories were so far away. Leuchter replied that at the Zyklon B material, when the gas was given off, there was a percentage per volume of air of 90 to 100 percent. This meant there was almost pure hydrogen cyanide at the carrier. A spark could set it off. (32-9250 to 9253)
Leuchter agreed that hydrogen cyanide was slightly lighter than air and rose very slowly. He agreed that unquestionably it would take a matter of minutes before the gas reached the person who had thrown it down into the gas chamber. He pointed out, however, that at some point someone would have to do an inspection to determine whether the parties were deceased. (32-9253, 9254)
He disagreed that if 2,000 people were squeezed into 2,500 square feet that the required concentration of hydrogen cyanide to air would be reached far quicker than if there were fewer people. He noted that "you're going to have hydrogen cyanide on the floor at the inert carrier and it's going to sit there because the room is going to be filled with solid material. And it would take hours for the gas on this side of the room to reach anyone at the other end." Asked if people running or stirring about would not cause the gas to circulate, Leuchter replied that 2,000 people in that room couldn't stir: "I'm not even sure how you could close the door on them." Asked if he had ever put 2,000 people in the room, Leuchter said: "No. But I'm sure I couldn't get them into that room." (32-9255)
Leuchter agreed that the symptoms of cyanide poisoning included vomiting, dizziness and headaches. He agreed that cyanide was not a cumulative poison, and did not stay in the body over the long term. (32-9257, 9258)
